A month or so back, I made a new friend from Taiwan who is currently studying at Harvard University. Pei-ling Huang was doing field research in Pakistan on an extremely interesting topic. A close friend of mine also studying at Harvard whom I was roommate with at LUMS had put me through to her. Both were visiting Pakistan.

I am indebted to both of them.

Peiling’s research experience got me interested at once. Here under I am producing our conversation:

So tell us a little about yourself? What brings you to Pakistan?

My name is Pei-ling Huang and I'm from Taipei, Taiwan. One thing I would like to highlight is that although we speak Mandarin Chinese in Taiwan, we are politically separate from China. Just today (January 16) we are having our presidential, regional, and legislative assembly elections. (January 22 update: now we have our first elected female president!) Pakistan and China are very close, and most Pakistanis are very cordial towards Chinese people, which I have benefitted from; although I am not from China.

What brought me to Pakistan is a long story. A short summary would be that I fell in love with the sound of sitar and tabla the first time I heard it live at a Hindustani music workshop while enrolled in a masters program in musicology at the National Taiwan University. I started travelling to India, and later Pakistan to learn the tabla and immerse in the rich musical culture of the South Asian subcontinent. I am familiar with English as my father did his PhD in Scotland and we lived there for 5 years when I was young. So with English and tutti-fruiti Hindi and Urdu I was able to get around fairly easily in India and Pakistan. Coming to South Asia literally changed my life path. After travelling a lot, I applied to PhD programs in ethnomusicology in the US, to further ground my interests in this part of the world. Qawwali and other types of music performed in Sufi contexts have enthralled me since the beginning and I love visiting Sufi shrines large and small. I knew I wanted to do my research at a Sufi shrine in Pakistan, but it took some time to find the most suitable place for me.

I have been accumulating survival Urdu during my travels, and now am working on speaking it more fluently. Recently I also started learning Sindhi, as I am focusing my research on the musical tradition at the shrine of Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai. During this trip I finally am able to differentiate Punjabi from Urdu (I used to think Lahoris mostly spoke Urdu), and the best sentence I learnt this time is telling rickshaw drivers: 'minnu dhoka na de'. I enjoy their surprise at me speaking Punjabi!

Would you like to share something about your research interest? How does this research topic interest you?

I can't speak for all international students, but there is definitely more interest in South Asia in the West than in Taiwan. When I started travelling here, not many Taiwanese people knew about the music and popular culture from South Asia, such as Bollywood, Hindustani classical music etc. that's famous in other places in the world. There were no language classes teaching Hindi or Urdu in Taiwan, and many people thought Pakistan is the same place as Palestine... (I apologize on their behalf). Now more people are becoming interested, primarily through travel, Bollywood movies and dance; although there is also the danger of forming an essentialized perspective of South Asia.

My research focus is the musical practice at the shrine of Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai. Groups of raagi faqirs melodically present the poetry of Shah Latif in front of his mazar day and night. I am interested in their socio-musical practice, how the repertoire is transmitted, and how this music practice contributes to the shrine as an important place of pilgrimage and claims making. I think this research is important for pointing out one of the many aspects of Islam as a way of living in the world, one that highlights love and humanity and de-emphasizes boundaries between religions. This can serve to push back against the narrative of certain groups in the West, as well as fundamental religious groups, that want to impose a single story of what Islam is.

I am still in the early stages of my research project, so I have just started laying the groundwork for fieldwork. Right now I primarily visit Bhit Shah and Hyderabad, to learn how to sing the baits and wai with my faqir ustad, and work on aspects of Shah's poetry (meter, meaning) with Sindhi literary and language experts. I have also met a few professors and writers in Hala and Matiari. The interesting thing about this area is that there is an abundance of shrines related to Shah Latif's personal life or the heroines of the folk stories he elaborated on. For example, the shrine of Shah Karim (Latif sein's grandfather) at Bulri Sharif, the shrines said to be of Sohini, Noori, Sassui (the heroines)... then there are also the 'takias' of Latif sein where he stayed during his travels. I love visiting shrines and hearing about the stories behind their creation, and hope these related shrines would eventually be interwoven into my research too. Then nearby there is also the shrine of Shah Inayat at Jhok Sharif. He is said to be a "socialist" Sufi saint, and the music performed there is different from the wai tradition at Bhit Shah. I hope to eventually, after making some contribution in my current project at Bhit Shah, expand to learning about the kafi singing practices (accompanied by yaktaro etc.) at Jhok Sharif, as well as the shrine of Sarchel Sarmast. But I think that would be after many years in the future.

I am told that you are a certified faqir. So I’d better take this opportunity to ask this question out of curiosity: do you think there is a link between Sufism/Tasawwuf, Qawwali/classical music and intoxication?

First of all, I am not a certified faqir, if such a term exists. My ustad and some faqirs at the shrine have been very kind and accepting of my learning this repertoire as well as presenting it musically in the way of faqirs at the shrine. But I have learnt just a fraction of this vast sea of knowledge and in no way can claim to fully know or represent the faqiri ways. I am also not an expert on Sufism. As far as I know, a lot of Sufi inspired poetry employ the allegory of wine and intoxication as a yearning towards uniting with the divine. Whether it is taken in the literal sense depends on individual interpretations.'Sufism' is also a constructed term that blankets myriad different practices under a homogenous name. Some schools of 'Sufi' practitioners, for example malangs or qalanders, might live out this intoxication more literally. However, in Bhit Shah I don't think intoxication through material substances is a feature in the life of a raagi faqir.

I believe you have visited other countries as well. How do you compare research infrastructure of Pakistan with other countries? Did you face any difficulty doing field research in Pakistan especially because you are a girl?

For me the important things at the moment are access to local literature, research resources, and reliable contacts, as well as personal logistics (means of travel, stay etc.). In terms of logistics, Pakistan is definitely more difficult than many other places, as there are challenges for a female foreigner travelling around in the countryside alone. Actually I don't think there is a lot of difference with India; although in India the tourism/backpacking infrastructure is more in place, so it is easier to piggy-back. In terms of access to literature (books etc.), it is dependent on good academic contacts, and is the same in every unfamiliar place. Luckily for me, I was able to connect with many knowledgeable and kind academics and literary people in Hyderabad who helped me immensely with scholarly and logistic guidance. I do feel safety is a bigger concern for me as a female, but being a foreign scholar brings certain privileges and exemption from some of the societal norms expected of a local woman. The main way of dealing with the safety issue has been to always be escorted by a man in a car. Coming from Taiwan, where I can do everything independently, I am not entirely comfortable with this arrangement, but it is a compromise that gets me around in a rural area where women don't like to leave their homes. However, things are different in Lahore, where I feel professional ladies have created a more friendly public space for themselves.

Given your busy routine with the research, did you get a chance to try Pakistani cuisine and Pakistani dresses? Which food did you like the most?

I have spent some time in Pakistan before starting my PhD, so have been able to get a taste of the food and fashion here. My favorite desi dishes are chicken haleem, beef nihari, paiya, and grilled chicken boti. My usual diet of vegetables goes out of the window here! Unfortunately I haven't really had time to learn to cook Pakistani cuisine properly, as most require long preparation.

I love how people can design their clothes and get it made with a darzi so easily here. Also the mind-boggling choice of fabrics available (summer lawn and winter khaddar etc.) is amazing. Getting suits stitched is one of my past times in Lahore. I have progressed from knowing nothing about what to communicate with the tailor to being able to match laces and deciding on lengths and gala shapes and buttons and everything!

Pakistanis are known for their hospitality. Do you agree with that? How far did you find it true for yourself?

Pakistanis are some of the most hospitable people I have ever met. Really I don't know how to repay the love that has been showered on me here. After visiting Sindh, my friends joke that I could open an ajrak gallery to display all the ajraks I was gifted there!

Would you like to leave any message for international students who want to come to Pakistan for research?

Pakistan is a very rich place for research, and I would love to meet more fellow colleagues. You just need a way in first, and once you connect with the right crowd, the people here are extremely generous and supportive of foreign researchers.

In the end what would you say to the Pakistani students? Any advice you would like to give to the young students who want to excel especially in research?

Passion and hard work is the key. Research can be a lonely road sometimes, so you really have to love what you do, and not do it for pleasing or showing off to others.